Curse

Snow Bunny · Oct 01, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

Upon accepting the presidency I strive to uphold the United States role as 'world police'.

Stopped reading after this

Master Fuhon · Oct 01, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Stopped reading after this

You're doing me a favor by not playing. The reason was in the next sentence.

We can stop being a parent when the children grow up, no sooner.

fishy go moo · Oct 02, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

http://www.google.com/search?&rls=en...ellite+missile

Pick your favorite news outlet; plenty to choose from.

Ok, China has freaking hax officialy.

Issac · Oct 02, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Looks like their more then enough countries against Russia. Same thing with China, I think Japan and SK can handle NK. Just worry about Cuba i guess lol.

Arkantos · Oct 02, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

While the whole world is fighting, Australia is going to rape every country in the ass with their secret weapons of mass destruction. They will be supreme rulers of the world.

Oh, and the US gets blown up. EPIC MIRITE?

some guy · Oct 02, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

ZenRgy · Oct 02, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Build a few of these:

And be prepared for attacks by small starfighters.

Avarre · Oct 02, 2008, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

You're doing me a favor by not playing. The reason was in the next sentence.

We can stop being a parent when the children grow up, no sooner.

lolin' hard

Hi Snow Bunny, do I pass International Relations????

fenix · Oct 02, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

While the whole world is fighting, Australia is going to rape every country in the ass with their secret weapons of mass destruction. They will be supreme rulers of the world.

Oh, and the US gets blown up. EPIC MIRITE?

You mean me, sup. I've been in the gym, training, so when WW3 comes around, pew pew I'll punch all the tanks and eat some nukes. I'm just that manly.

Snow Bunny · Oct 02, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Hi Snow Bunny, do I pass International Relations????

A-

You over-estimate the abilities of the RoK's military force, as well as the commitment of the Japanese.

sup?

Avarre · Oct 02, 2008, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I was kinda banking on the heavy US deployment in the region to shore up the Koreans, especially as the scenario would require a massive redistribution of naval force to the Pacific. Furthermore, the continual economic deterioration of DPRK would weaken their military abilities, as well as a disruption of effective leadership brought on by the failing health of Kim Jong Il (if he was still alive at that point).

Everyone knows ROKAF is too busy playing StarCraft to fight.

Plus, the scenario said that Japan was going to fight. It's the question's fault!

Snow Bunny · Oct 02, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00

I just recall from studying the Korean War how absolutely terrible RoK troops were. As soon as the Chinese started up their assaults, RoK lines would simply collapse.

The Japanese + SKorea could contain DPRK, but that's assuming China didn't get involved.

The question's assumption of Japanese commitment is laughable. They'd forstall entry for as long as possible, enter at the worst possible time, and get rolled by the Chinese.

Avarre · Oct 02, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

just recall from studying the Korean War how absolutely terrible RoK troops were. As soon as the Chinese started up their assaults, RoK lines would simply collapse.

The Chinese offensive was mainly successful due to sheer numbers and the rapid rate of expansion of the US/RoK forces. Once positions were taken, the numerically superior (except in the air) Communist forces were no more successful than the UN/RoK forces at shifting the battle lines. The difference is that during this stalemate process, the South existed, while the Northern economy and infrastructure was utterly obliterated.

The US maintains a large force in RoK (their largest foreign basing of troops iirc, although that might have recently changed), and thus any 'surprise attack' from the North would have to push through heavy resistance. I did include the provision for China to be supporting the move, but the US will also be able to draw on the Seventh Fleet and other resources to delay until reinforcements from other theaters can arrive. The North wouldn't be able to sustain an attack for long with their supply situation - so unless it turned into a full-scale proxy war, combined forces should be able to contain or breach that. Especially taking into account the scenario noting DPRK has nuclear capabilities and hence the US is likely to have increased RoK presence.

The majority of the scenario is laughable, but I'm trying to work with what's there.

Snow Bunny · Oct 02, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

The one thing that's not in the scenario that I think should be is the possibility of Chinese aggression on DPRK.

If you think about it, threatening RoK with nuclear weapons is going to draw the US in, especially with its large deployment there (as you noted). However, despite the fact that the world may have moved on a bit from Cold War hurt feelings, I doubt China would allow the DPRK to be so aggressive and reckless, especially considering China's own movements.

I'm pretty sure, cliched as this might sound, that the RoK/DPRK would turn into a large proxy war between the Chinese and the US.

The US currently is a substantial force in East Asia, especially SE Asia, with (like it or not, Fenix) Australia as an ally, at least currently. China's ridiculous aggression into the rest of Asia would put the US on high alert, and thus I can easily see Korea becoming another proxy war.

But I still can't think about what would happen with Russia; the EU could easily contain it, but the sheer absurdity of the usage of nuclear weapons sort of throws the whole "LET'S THINK ABOUT THIS SERIOUSLY AND LOGICALLY" aspect out the window.

Carry on.

Master Fuhon · Oct 02, 2008, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Thinking about it more, I would still choose Russia as a primary target despite the threat posed by China. And furthermore, making an example of Russia would make Cuba/Venezuela reconsider action against the US, as long as I can make sure it is not complete Russian influence that would be responsible for a counter-launch. Even so, I would pressure Cuba/Venezuela to act quickly to help or else be held responsible for the consequences of Russian action that occurs under their noses.

I want to add, I feel that the original war scenario begs the premise that isolationism fails. I could have tried to argue why it doesn't work in the current state of the world anyway with the number of treaties we've signed over the years (NATO defaults us to take action). To go isolationist, we would have to back out on most of these treaties and create enemies out of old friends in the process. But going back simply to what you proposed, Russian missiles in Cuba and Venezuela means that further isolationism would be a failure; since the past actions of pulling back from the rest of the world allowed the scenario to begin.

Next, with the current state of China, I think them trying to capitalize on this situation would make this scenario even uglier (getting into that later with how I think people would try to fight China, ie not straight up). On the world scale, we would have convinced people that this was a WW3 and that China could be grouped up as a common enemy with Russia (whether the two allied or not). But with the strong nationalism in China right now, this is a war that could not be won by conventional methods. But I have two things to point out about where I believe China is weak (I don't know enough to state that we can attack them with economics yet).

By the current consitution of Japan not allowing them to hold an agressive military force, I have doubts that they would have confidence in their ability to win against North Korea alone. Likewise, many of the smaller countries I assume would ally for various reasons to merge this as one great war. So I make the assumption that the US can no longer pick and choose a conflict without dealing with the others. The combined resources would have to be used to attack Russia while defending against China initially. Chinese nationalism is very strong, yet it only remains that way because of the removal of outside influence. There would have to be a media propaganda campaign to challenge the belief systems of the Chinese people; and with the previous example of Russia, I don't think it would be hard to get them afraid of the possibility of nuclear weapons used against them. In the US we are already paranoid of our leadership and doubt the sources of anything; there is almost no nationalism left to lose, just individualism. Individualist beliefs taking hold in a communist country would be a huge American victory.

I've seen some cockiness about China kicking the US ass in this thread. I think the US would foremost realize this and not try to go about fighing China conventionally, especially with our hands tied by other conflicts. However, my expectation would be that germ warfare would be used by another country to attack the Chinese internally (they would be extremely weak to this type of attack given the high population, as all high population countries are). I don't know how potent the technology is right now, but a country like Japan could eagerly employ this tactic in defense of the threat posed by China. Note that I'm not suggesting this, I think it will have massive consequences and we'll have to sign treaties preventing this in the future. But not every country is as confident in itself as the US to take all options off the table. Thank scientists for keeping things like old strains of the plague in labs for study; they just don't think of the consequences of other people getting their hands on the research. In other words, I expect China to get hurt worse than anyone can imagine for not seeing it coming by preparing a defense (and this isn't a good thing).

I don't know really. I would assume a real war scenario would employ some type of tactic people didn't expect to see coming, since it wouldn't be defendable. But as I've said before, I find that starting this type of conflict is suicidal, and would aim toward taking out leaders to not hold entire countries responsible.

Shadow Kurd · Oct 02, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

When has the UN ever been anything but an international joke? I don't mean any offense to you, please understand. Honest question on my part.

QFT! A western joke is even better.

As for the war. People's Liberation Army is going to win, no challenge there.
Available for military service:
375,009,345 males/354,314,328 females

Fit for military service:
313,321,639 males/295,951,438 females

Active personnel:
2,250,000 (ranked 1st)

Reserve personnel:
800,000.

Remember the lesson of 20th-century warfare: birthrate wins.
The only real challenge the PLA has is India.

Master Fuhon · Oct 02, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Kurd

QFT! A western joke is even better.

As for the war. People's Liberation Army is going to win, no challenge there.
Available for military service:
375,009,345 males/354,314,328 females

Fit for military service:
313,321,639 males/295,951,438 females

Active personnel:
2,250,000 (ranked 1st)

Reserve personnel:
800,000.

Remember the lesson of 20th-century warfare: birthrate wins.
The only real challenge the PLA has is India.

Read the second to last paragraph in the post above yours. I'm the one who wrote it so I know what it says. Why do you continue to believe anyone intends to fight a straight up war against China? You aren't the only genius with those numbers.

Edit: Just noticed the lesson on 20th century warfare. It's the 21st century now...

Sora267 · Oct 03, 2008, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Nuke.

F***ing.

EVERYBODY.

This. 12chars

fenix · Oct 03, 2008, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

Upon accepting the presidency I strive to uphold the United States role as 'world police'.

Get the f*ck out. I hate amerifags who think they run the world. Also, your suggestion that China will be 'beaten' by germ warfare is a joke.

You're bad at life, and you're bad at WW3 scenarios.

netniwk · Oct 03, 2008, 05:54 AM // 05:54

haha,you're all just a bunch of warmongers
at least I get to be neutral and watch the big boys beat the shit out of each other.